Why clinics in England stopped using puberty blockers on children.

it is normal to legislate on children consent. You don't need a medical PHD in order to understand that we don't know the side effects on the long run of medical procedures (e.g. preventing puberty at all) on children when they haven't existed at all until 10 years before.

The sterilization processes involved are irreversible.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #16:. Leave medicine to the doctors, and stop trying to legislate surgeries and medical procedures.

If you watch the video this was about the MEDICAL COMMUNITY in England who raised concerns and wanted it stopped. ( also in Sweden who led the world in the practice )

@Mopman said in #22:
> . Leave medicine to the doctors, and stop trying to legislate surgeries and medical procedures.
>
> If you watch the video this was about the MEDICAL COMMUNITY in England who raised concerns and wanted it stopped. ( also in Sweden who led the world in the practice )

I don't take medical advice from videos. I prefer peer reviewed publications, and the word of the American medical association.

@colin20g said in #21:
> it is normal to legislate on children consent. You don't need a medical PHD in order to understand that we don't know the side effects on the long run of medical procedures (e.g. preventing puberty at all) on children when they haven't existed at all until 10 years before.
>
> The sterilization processes involved are irreversible.

Are you a doctor, cause it sounds like you're spouting off bullshit.

www.ohsu.edu/sites/default/files/2020-12/Gender-Clinic-Fertility-Preservation-Handout.pdf

Here it says puberty blockers do not cause infertility unless paired with gender affirming hormones. On the AMA website, it says gender affirming hormones are provided to children 16 or older after extensive psychological and physical evaluation.

2 minutes of looking at actual expert opinion seems to contradict the medical misinformation @Mopman, @colin20g, and @Alientcp are trying to push. It sounds to me like you folks have been indoctrinated by media chucklefucks who are telling you what to believe. They'd rather you focus on all your energy on less than 0.2% of the population rather than actual economic issues most countries are facing at the moment, and the political parties involved who are failing to fix these issues.

@Mopman said in #22:
> . Leave medicine to the doctors, and stop trying to legislate surgeries and medical procedures.
>
> If you watch the video this was about the MEDICAL COMMUNITY in England who raised concerns and wanted it stopped. ( also in Sweden who led the world in the practice )

But they didn't stop it in England. I didn't watch the video, but the headline to this thread isn't correct.

@Sleepy_Gary Your link is to an advertisement selling fertility options ( notice the price list they included?), you posted earlier that you prefer peer reviewed references?

Plus there is this line in the pamphlet "If you would like to freeze some sperm to use later, we recommend doing it before taking puberty blockers or estrogen" so this advertisement is aimed at people who have already undergone puberty and have viable sperm. Also note they agree that blockers CAN effect fertility in males at the very least.

Here is a peer reviewed paper on the subject: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35758886/

And a quote from this article:

"Puberty blockers have known serious side effects, with uncertainty about their long-term use. They do not improve mental health. Without medication, most will desist from the dysphoria in time. Yet over 90% of those treated with puberty blockers progress to cross-sex hormones and often surgery, with irreversible consequences."

There are differing opinions amongst experts on this so the best option would be NOT to use children as test subjects for a treatment with exactly ZERO long term studies.

@AsDaGo said in #6:
> But not choosing to have a woman's body might mean choosing to have a man's body and vice versa. If they are denied the choice they want, it seems much more likely to me that they regret it later then if they were given the choice they want.
You can always change it when you are an adult. Take a recent example like Chris from Mr. Beast. He went through a ton of surgery to become a woman. Chris was 25 (I'm not sure).

@Mopman said in #25:
> @Sleepy_Gary Your link is to an advertisement selling fertility options ( notice the price list they included?), you posted earlier that you prefer peer reviewed references?
>
> Plus there is this line in the pamphlet "If you would like to freeze some sperm to use later, we recommend doing it before taking puberty blockers or estrogen" so this advertisement is aimed at people who have already undergone puberty and have viable sperm. Also note they agree that blockers CAN effect fertility in males at the very least.
>
> Here is a peer reviewed paper on the subject: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35758886/
>
> And a quote from this article:
>
> "Puberty blockers have known serious side effects, with uncertainty about their long-term use. They do not improve mental health. Without medication, most will desist from the dysphoria in time. Yet over 90% of those treated with puberty blockers progress to cross-sex hormones and often surgery, with irreversible consequences."
>
> There are differing opinions amongst experts on this so the best option would be NOT to use children as test subjects for a treatment with exactly ZERO long term studies.

In the fertility clinic article that you're trying to misrepresent, it says "Taking puberty blockers alone should not affect your ability to have a baby in the future. But if you also take estrogen or testosterone, this can affect it."

www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-states-stop-interfering-health-care-transgender-children

The fact that transitioning does improve mental health:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/

"After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed 60% lower odds of depression (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 0.40; 95% CI, 0.17-0.95) and 73% lower odds of suicidality (aOR, 0.27; 95% CI, 0.11-0.65) among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not."

Look, if you want to spend all your time hating less than 0.2% of the population for being born a certain way, thats your prerogative. But experts disagree with the bullshit you spout in this thread. I can only hope you never have a trans child and subject them to suicide with your backwards nonsense.

@Mopman said in #0:
> Why clinics in England stopped using puberty blockers on children.

Because they need more adults to produce more tax payers ?

@Sleepy_Gary www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382

"Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare, which sets guidelines for care, determined last year that the risks of puberty blockers and treatment with hormones “currently outweigh the possible benefits” for minors.24 Finland’s Council for Choices in Health Care, a monitoring agency for the country’s public health services, issued similar guidelines, calling for psychosocial support as the first line treatment.25 (Both countries restrict surgery to adults.)

Medical societies in France, Australia, and New Zealand have also leant away from early medicalisation.2627 And NHS England, which is in the midst of an independent review of gender identity services, recently said that there was “scarce and inconclusive evidence to support clinical decision making”28 for minors with gender dysphoria29 and that for most who present before puberty it will be a “transient phase,” requiring clinicians to focus on psychological support and to be “mindful” even of the risks of social transition.30"

I do not hate anyone but we are seeing the beginning of an ever increasing number of detransitioners who are asking why they were allowed to make permanent life and health altering changes to their bodies when they were too young to properly evaluate the risks.

Putting your own words back at you, if you want to spend all your time hating the growing percentage of people who transitioned as children and now wish there should have been more safeguards and steps taken to protect them, that is your prerogative. I can only hope you never have a child that is carelessly allowed to transition only to regret it and commit suicide because they now have to face a lifetime suffering from your careless indiference.

@Mopman said in #29:
> @Sleepy_Gary www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382
>
> "Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare, which sets guidelines for care, determined last year that the risks of puberty blockers and treatment with hormones “currently outweigh the possible benefits” for minors.24 Finland’s Council for Choices in Health Care, a monitoring agency for the country’s public health services, issued similar guidelines, calling for psychosocial support as the first line treatment.25 (Both countries restrict surgery to adults.)
>
> Medical societies in France, Australia, and New Zealand have also leant away from early medicalisation.2627 And NHS England, which is in the midst of an independent review of gender identity services, recently said that there was “scarce and inconclusive evidence to support clinical decision making”28 for minors with gender dysphoria29 and that for most who present before puberty it will be a “transient phase,” requiring clinicians to focus on psychological support and to be “mindful” even of the risks of social transition.30"
>
> I do not hate anyone but we are seeing the beginning of an ever increasing number of detransitioners who are asking why they were allowed to make permanent life and health altering changes to their bodies when they were too young to properly evaluate the risks.
>
> Putting your own words back at you, if you want to spend all your time hating the growing percentage of people who transitioned as children and now wish there should have been more safeguards and steps taken to protect them, that is your prerogative. I can only hope you never have a child that is carelessly allowed to transition only to regret it and commit suicide because they now have to face a lifetime suffering from your careless indiference.

I'll take the advice of the American Medical Association on this one.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

"Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth"

The previous article I posted shows transitioning helps mental health outcomes. Now show me proof that the people who regret transitioning have a suicide rate higher than 40%. I'd rather have a child with regrets rather than a child in a casket.